Episode 289

Apr 3, 2020

Kim West Padgitt, President and Managing Principal of The Tax Advantage, LLC joins us to tackle the bits ands pieces of the CARES Act that can help massage businesses during this extended pandemic closure.

Listen to "E289: Understanding Business Relief Options for Massage Practices Under the CARES Act" on Spreaker.
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What caught our attention this week?

  • All about the CARES Act
  • And Allissa is reading the Magic Tree House series

Discussion Topic

  • Kim West Padgitt, President and Managing Principal of The Tax Advantage, LLC joins us to tackle the bits ands pieces of the CARES Act that can help massage businesses during this extended pandemic closure.
  • Summary of all SBA programs here
  • Specific PPP info

Quick Tips

  • Kim- If you’re stuck at home, now is a good time to embrace a hobby to take your mind off what’s up.
  • Michael- Skyguide app
  • Allissa- Calm free meditations


  • Acuity Scheduling
  • The Jojoba Company
  • Yomassage


Sponsor message This episode is sponsored by Yomassage. Yomassage combines restorative stretching, massage, and mindfulness in a small-group session. Limited in-person trainings are happening in 2020, and virtual trainings begin the first Monday of each month. You can get a special $50 off on trainings January through March in 2020 using the code BLUEPRINT. That's all caps, one word, BLUEPRINT. You can go to massagebusinessblueprint.com/yomassage to find out more about Yomassage trainings, and use that special code, BLUEPRINT, for $50 off.

Michael Reynolds Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Massage Business Blueprint podcast, where we are still helping you navigate the craziness that's going on in our world today. I'm Michael Reynolds.

Allissa Haines I'm Allissa Haines.

MR And we're your hosts. Thanks for joining us today. We have an action-packed episode because all sorts of things are happening related to the CARES Act and business aid and income aid for people that are affected by COVID-19, which is just about everybody. And we've got a special treat today because we are joined by Kim Padgitt from The Tax Advantage, LLC, who are partners of Massage Business Blueprint and have been sponsors. They are our favorite accountants. And so we'd like to welcome Kim today.

Kim, welcome.

Kim Padgitt Thank you.

MR Glad you could be here.

KP Thank you for having me.

MR Absolutely. I'm sure you're pretty busy right now.

KP Yes. We are a little busy.

MR [Laughing] Yeah. You're still -- I've gotten reports, though, that -- you work with a lot of our members, and they've been telling us, or telling me, anyway, that even though you're obviously swamped right now, you always are still providing great service. You don't make them feel rushed. You are very accessible, and they really appreciate that. So I want to say thank you for that.

KP You're welcome. We work at that.

MR Yeah. Well, good. Well, today we're going to unpack the CARES Act and kind of what's available for massage practices specifically in the small-business realm. So let's first -- we usually start with what are we reading, what caught our attention. That's kind of a silly question these days because we all know what's got our attention these days.

But let's just kind of talk about you. What are you up to? Let's recap your background, what your business is all about. Give us a little short intro for those who haven't met you virtually yet on our podcast. Give us your background, Kim. What's going on?

KP Hi. Yes. My background, I've been in the world of payroll, accounting, bookkeeping, and taxes for about 30 years now, helping mostly small businesses from anything from 20 million and below, with the majority of those being small businesses that gross a million or less a year. And that's kind of where I like to be. I like to help the small entrepreneur advance their careers and move forward. It's kind of fun to watch it take off and go.

MR Nice. Well, I know you work with a lot of our members, and you and Julie are my personal accountants as well. So I really love working with you guys.

KP Thank you.

MR Thank you for all you do. All right. Anything you're reading this week besides the obvious? Any kind of -- are you trying to distract yourself with anything that's noncoronavirus-related? Or is it pretty much all-consuming for you?

KP Well, I could make up something, but the real truth is --

MR [Laughing].

KP -- most of my time has been spent reading about the CARE Act (sic), SBA loans, ways to help people, and how this affects their taxes going backward and forward.

MR Yeah.

KP So that's what I've been consumed with this week.

MR Yeah. Same here. What about you, Allissa?

AH Well, now that I'm out of a job, I have a little bit more time to read. So [laughing] what I have been -- I've been reading learning templates for 5th graders and 7th graders and conducting Allissa's fake homeschool at home. And so the little one read The Magic -- we're reading The Magic Tree House book series together and also writing up theory and theme templates, and to meet his ELA -- I think it's English language arts requirements are -- really, they're all optional at-home-learning things right now. So on top of reading all of the CARES Act stuff, I am reading 5th-grade literature.

MR Nice [laughing].

AH And that's the update from my house [laughing].

MR [Laughing] It sounds like a lovely escape from current events.

AH I bet neither of you are reading The Magic Tree House right now.

MR It sounds like a lovely escape from current events. I'll give you that [laughing].

AH It's -- yeah. Children being home all the time and no one being able to leave the house is very interesting --

MR [Laughing].

AH -- and probably good because if I was home alone or it was just us without kids, I would definitely be binge-Netflixing, all of the things other people seem to be doing right now. So I wish upon all three of us maybe some time in the future to do that.

MR Nice.

KP [Laughing] Absolutely. It sounds fun. One day you're bored, that would be awesome.

AH But, you know, we can move into more important things other than --

MR Let's do that.

AH -- my homeschool curriculum.

MR All right. Go for it. Let's show some love to our sponsor, and then we'll start digging into the topic here. So our sponsor, before we do that, is our friends -- or are our friends at Jojoba.

AH Yay, Jojoba.

Sponsor message As you know, I recommend Jojoba Care jojoba for use in your massage practice since it never goes rancid, and it's safe for all your clients and won't stain your natural fiber sheets. However, since we're not massaging anyone right now, but we do have increased handwashing for safety -- and it might be time to grab your bottle of jojoba from your massage room and use it for a bit of self-care.

Jojoba is the closest thing to the natural sebum that our skin produces. Our skin can't keep up with all the repeated hand washings, so a couple of drops on the back of your hands is going to keep your skin soft and healthy. The Jojoba Company understands that times are hard right now because of our out-of-work stoppage stuff, and so from now through May 1st, they are increasing the discount that's offered through Massage Business Blueprint to 20%. And you can go to massagebusinessblueprint.com/jojoba, J-O-J-O-B-A, to get that discount.

And yeah. If you need some jojoba, go get some. And if you don't have any in your massage room or you can't get to your massage room, go to massagebusinessblueprint.com/jojoba and -- to get that increased discount of 20%.

MR It's good stuff. I keep a bottle by my sink for my skin. It's lovely.

AH [Laughing]

MR That was totally random [laughing].

AH All right. What have we got going on now?

MR I really do [laughing]. All right.

AH I do too. I've got three bottles throughout the house.

MR Right, right. Okay. All right.

So Kim, we really appreciate you joining us today. Again, for -- just to kind of recap, you and Julie own The Tax Advantage, LLC. You do taxes. You do accounting. You do bookkeeping. You take care of a lot of our members for bookkeeping and taxes for their business and personal stuff, and obviously, you're really busy with everything going on. And you're doing a lot of work helping small businesses specifically navigate the CARES Act and how to find, specifically, relief and aid for business interruption right now.

So where would you like to start? Would you like to just kind of give a brief overview of the programs available, and then maybe dig into specific nuances and details?

KP Yes. I would say, and Allissa said this earlier, a lot of this stuff we're all just learning and it's just evolving as we speak. So any information you get from me today, please know that it is as current as it can be, but it could change tomorrow.

MR Yeah. Exactly.

KP So just keep tuning in to all your resources. Check with anyone you're working with to make sure the information is indeed current and has not changed. I'll give you an example. One example is I was under the impression until just about an hour ago that if you applied for the Economic Injury Disaster Advance Loan, you might not qualify for the Payroll Protection Program loan. And that seems now to have been not true. You just have to use those two for different things, and there's a few other things you have to do. So that has changed from what I was giving people the last couple of days, based on the new information I just got from the Senate committee.

So I would start with -- the folks that are mostly listening to us today, I believe the majority of them are sole members that are one or two people, at best, working. And so I would start with the simple things like student loans. If you have student loans, you can stop paying them for six months with no interest and no payments unless, of course, your borrowers happen to be Perkins Loans and the Federal Family Education Loans. Those are not owned by the US Department of Education and are not eligible for automatic forbearance, but you can call those companies if you have a loan that is not -- a student loan that is not owned by the US Department of Education. And you should be able to get a traditional forbearance through those lenders.

You can find those lenders pretty easily. If you know the name of your lender, just google the numbers, and you'll get a list of numbers. I'm sure that you may have a wait. But the majority of people, most of their loans are backed by the US Department of Education, and that's an automatic -- you just stop paying that for six months. That'll help a little, depending upon the size of your loan.

SBA Loans. If you already have an SBA loan, you can get six months of no payments for now, and it may even extend further. But at the moment, it's six months. Most states are offering unemployment to sole proprietors, one-member LLCs, and this will be a first ever. And so it may take those states a week or two to get their software up and running properly so that you can apply because if you try now, in most states -- I know that there are some states that already have it up and running -- you will get to the end, and it will say you don't qualify. So just keep checking back at the Department of Workforce Development for your state, and I'm sure that on their website they will have information that will let you know when and if you as a sole proprietor, one-member LLC, can apply for unemployment, which should help.

And Michael, you had something about unemployment and something that I heard you speak about today. You had a part of that unemployment, that I wasn't quite clear on, where you said there was an additional amount they were going to add to unemployment payment.

MR Oh, yes, yes. They're adding $600 per week additional to unemployment benefits, so -- which more than doubles the traditional benefit. It's usually less than $400 a week, and so they're adding -- they're more than doubling the potential benefit.

KP Heard that some of this is for those time frames, but I do not know if it applies to that 600 per week.

MR Got it. Thank you.

AH And again, a lot of this is just incoming and uncertain, and we're just not going to know until we get really into it.

KP Exactly, until they provide us more information as we go along. So those are immediate things that might give a little relief, and if you can actually get on unemployment and it is an additional 600 above what one would normally receive on unemployment, I think that would go a long way in easing immediate tensions. But it might not go -- it might not be enough to hold you over. So there are other things that can be done.

There are the Economic Injury Disaster Advance Loan, and that one seems to be relatively easy and can be applied for on the SBA website in 10 or 15 minutes, as I understand it. And there can be a $10,000 pretty quick payment. I assume that that would be direct deposit into a bank account once you've been approved. And anything that I'm saying now, if either participant knows something different, they should chime in.

MR Yeah. I want to ask you about that, actually, Kim.

KP Yes.

MR Can I ask you about that specifically? We've had some discussion from some members about that. When you apply, it asks for your revenue and your cost of goods sold.

KP Yes.

MR And the consensus seems to be your cost of goods sold for a massage practice would typically be zero. Is that correct?

KP Yes. That is exactly what I have told.

MR Okay. Thank you.

KP Yeah. There's no, really, cost of goods sold. There are some job supplies, but it's not really a cost of goods sold as it would be if you were manufacturing or selling widgets.

MR Got it. Thank you.

KP So I've been telling people to put zero there.

AH And I just want to be really clear. There's two parts to this disaster loan and advance.

KP Yes.

AH But there's one application. So you fill out one application, and then you get -- you'll find out, hopefully in a couple of days -- who knows? -- if you are eligible for a loan. And even if you are not eligible for a loan, you can still request the advance. And the advance could be up to $10,000, and it is supposedly -- if you are awarded the advance, it is forgivable, which means you don't have to pay it back. And you will get that money within a couple of days. And that is what I've read, and that is how I understand it.

Does that make sense to you as well? Is that how you've interpreted this?

KP That's what I've read, and that is also how I understand it. I would say the following. There are guidelines on what you should use the money for. So keep really good records on what you use the money for, and that will be how you go about, at the end of this process, of getting it forgiven. They will ask for such-and-such. And so good records will be the key to getting these -- what are initially loans and on the back end are going to be grant forgiven, is good record keeping.

MR And can you define what you would classify as good record keeping? Would it be enough to just basically have good bookkeeping practices, like working with a firm like yours to say, hey, my books are in order? Or is there something extra you recommend people do to the records?

KP What I would do in this case -- yes. I mean, good bookkeeping is key. But I would also -- if I were to receive a $10,000 grant at this moment, I would put it in a separate class, and any expenses I use toward that class would be coded toward it. So you could print a separate report within your bookkeeping that says, here's what money you gave me, and this is exactly how we spent that money.

AH And for people who aren't really hip with QuickBooks speak, the word "class" could probably be interchanged with category.

KP Yes. In other words, the word "class" -- you could call it a grant, and then your class for the rest of your expenses that apply to that money could also be under a category called grant where you could print out a report that says, here's the $5,000 I received. $1,500 of it paid this, where it's very -- it's pretty detailed. And if someone wanted the details for each of those categories, you could give them that as well.

MR But a class is really a label because -- I might be wrong, but a category is different from a class. Correct?

KP It is, but within that category, you can have classes.

MR That's -- okay. Different labels.

AH I just want to put this in speak that people who don't use QuickBooks understand because if I --

KP Okay. So what I --

AH -- was starting to look into bookkeeping as class, that would make no sense to me. So I just wanted to kind of throw out some general terms so that --

KP So I'm trying to figure out another term, another way that people that aren't using a mobile or online software -- and that would, my opinion, be an Excel spreadsheet where they kept track of, this is what I brought in from this, and this is how I spent it.

MR Thank you. That makes sense.

AH Excellent. Thank you.

KP You're welcome.

AH I will always be an advocate for non-QuickBook people. But please carry on.

MR I will always fight you on that [laughing].

KP [Laughing] So that is what I would do with -- I mean, just good records are going to be the key for that. And the part of that that isn't going to be a grant, it has pretty favorable how you pay it back amounts. It's over ten years, as I understand it.

MR Yeah.

KP And it could be rolled into a Payroll Protection Program loan, and then you would just have one loan if you so desired and so needed. A lot of people could probably -- if they got up to a $10,000 grant, maybe they could -- maybe that would hold them over if you couple that with unemployment and cutting down on other expenses where they can until this is over with, until we can all come out of our houses. And I'm afraid we're all going to come out pasty white [laughing] --

MR [Laughing].

KP -- and 20 pounds overweight because we can't do anything [laughing].

AH Dude, not me. We're chasing kids around. We have to get them outside for a couple hours every day.

KP Oh, there you go. There you go.

AH I've lost four pounds, and I feel great because I'm cooking for myself.

KP Oh, awesome.

MR Yeah. We're eating eat home, eating healthy food for once. Yeah [laughing].

KP Yes, exactly. And that -- another way you can save money is cook. You've got a little extra time. Cook. Don't hit the -- call the pizza man. Cook. So that's one of the programs.

Another thing I wanted to talk to people about personally was taxes. I want to make sure that everyone --

MR Actually, Kim --

KP Yes?

MR Kim, before we move on to that, I want to jump back to -- and maybe you're planning to hit this anyway. Maybe I'm premature, but let's see. So the Payroll Protection Program is -- the word "payroll," I think, is throwing a lot of people off because the --

KP Yes. It is.

MR -- vast majority of our listeners are sole proprietors, maybe single-member LLCs.

KP And it threw me off at first as well. I mean, I was like, well --

MR So let's --

KP Yeah.

MR So let's define what wages or payroll can be defined as. My understanding is that your net income basically counts as the payroll when you're a sole proprietor or an LLC. Is that correct in your understanding?

KP That is the understanding that I have now, that you can apply for a Payroll Protection Program loan even if you are a sole proprietor or a one-member LLC. Yes.

MR Right.

KP And they will use your average income as a way to define payroll for you.

AH All right. So I want to jump into a little bit more complicated question. Let's say I apply for and qualify for and get either an emergency disaster loan -- not an advance, a loan -- or a PPP loan, and I continue to pay myself based on my previous net income or owner's draws or disbursements or whatever, and I continue to pay myself for the time that I'm out of work. I cannot be filing with my state unemployment for insurance for those same time periods, can I?

KP That is my -- I mean, that certainly would make no sense if you could.

AH Okay.

KP So yes. It would be either one or the other, in my opinion. You can't do both because, I mean, you just can't. You can't say you're unemployed and still be paying yourself payroll through these programs. Correct.

AH Got it.

KP So for some people --

AH And I want to also just -- I'm sorry. I also want to stipulate because this part about the PPP loan where it's forgivable, many parts of it are forgivable, I want to reiterate that those portions like your rent and your utility and all the other things that are considered forgivable are only forgivable if you have met that requirement of continuing payroll for those eight weeks. So you can't take out the PPP loan, pay all your expenses but not payroll, collect unemployment for that time period instead of paying yourself payroll, and then expect all of those expenses to be forgivable.

And I want to really reiterate that because we've got a lot of questions about if you can do both and stuff, and I just want to be really clear that the PPP stuff is not forgivable if you are not also covering your own payroll. The intent of this legislation was to keep people off of unemployment and reward companies for not laying off their employees.

All right. I've done my shtick now.

KP Oh, that was awesome [laughing]. I could not have said that better myself. I really -- that was great because that is true. You cannot do both, and that just makes sense. So if you are a sole proprietor or a one-member LLC, you pretty much have to sit down and decide which of these two programs -- which am I going to do? Am I going to apply for the loan, or am I going to try unemployment?

So for the sole proprietor or the one-member LLC, you will need to decide which of these fits your needs the best. I'm assuming for most people that have a studio or still have expenses that the PPP or the Emergency Economic Disaster Advance Loan might fit your needs better. But I can't make that decision. You should probably speak with whomever helps you with your bookkeeping, your financial advisors, and decide which one of those fits you.

And then just know, whichever one you decide, it's going to take a little bit longer to get the relief you're looking for than you think it will. This is a big task for the government to try to undertake in such a short amount of time, and I think it's going to take a little longer than people think it's going to. With unemployment, it's my understanding that once you get on unemployment, once they approve you, it should go backwards until your first date of unemployment. So that should be helpful to some. But that's what I want to tell people. It's going to be a little longer than you want it to be.

AH I also think we need to kind of step back and recognize how immense and impressive it is that this legislation happened as quickly as it is -- as it did. And to be from -- I know it was mid-March for me when people started shutting down their practices on their own or by force from states and stuff, and I was one of the earlier ones to shut down because Massachusetts was hit pretty quick.

But the fact that this legislation was drafted and passed within 14 days from when I was out of work, and that within 21 or 28 days of when I stopped working, as a sole proprietor, I'm going to be eligible for unemployment, that is remarkable to me. So I know that it's really terrifying for people who don't have an emergency fund and are really concerned about rent and grocery money, but it is still really impressive and remarkable that this is happening as fast as it is. And this is -- I never thought I would see any kind of safety net program that pays small-business owners unemployment.

So I just want to step in with the tiniest little bit of gratitude that it's annoying that it's taking this long, but holy wow, this is massive. Okay. I'm done.

KP Yes. Yes.

MR Yeah. It's historic.

KP It is historic, and you're correct. It is amazing that they got it through as fast as they did get it through, totally amazing. So those are the first decisions you'll have to make, and it'll be one of many over the next few months. But those -- unemployment or do I shoot for some of these loans?

And in some ways, I might say shoot for some of the loans that are out there, the grants and the forgivable ones. And if something happens and you for some reason don't qualify, then you could go back to unemployment. But it would be difficult to do the other, to start with unemployment and then try the loan. At least I think it would be.

MR Yeah. That's a really good point. I want to make sure we really recap that and clarify it. So you're saying it's your understanding is it's okay to apply for disaster relief or PPP and then let unemployment kick in after that's exhausted.

KP Yes. Or if you don't qualify for some reason -- you haven't been in business long enough or your credit score isn't good enough because some of these -- this Economic Injury Disaster Advance Loan, if I understand it correctly, it's kind of tied to a credit score as to how fast --

MR Yeah.

KP -- they're going to help you. So maybe you don't have good credit at the moment. You're working on that, but it's not there yet. I would still try these first, and if you get turned down, then go to unemployment. And then you should be able to go backwards for the weeks that you -- if you were messing with the loans for a week or two and didn't qualify, I think you still would get unemployment for the back weeks.

MR Well, what I'm wondering is -- I just want to make sure that I -- the way I understand it, you could apply for, let's say, PPP. Let's say you get it for eight weeks, or you pay yourself through payroll or through distributions, using that fund to pay yourself for eight weeks, making it forgivable, in theory. Then that runs out, and you're still not working after eight weeks. Then you apply for unemployment at that point.

I'm not seeing anything that says you cannot do that or that you'll be ineligible for unemployment once the PPP runs out. Is your understanding the same?

KP My understanding is absolutely the same as that; that if it runs out, if the loans run out, if the grants run out, you can absolutely, if you're still unemployed, go on unemployment. Yes.

MR I think that's key because a lot of people that are in non-massage professions, they're -- they can go back to work in a couple months, in theory. But in the massage therapy profession, there is a general consensus, at least in our community, that it's going to be a while. It could be many, many months. Allissa's even been saying 12 to 18 months. So we don't know. There's extremes at either end, but we don't really know.

And so I want to make sure that kind of process is clear to our members that maybe it does make sense to exhaust a couple possibilities with PPP and disaster relief first, and then the rest of the time could be supplemented by unemployment because it may be a while.

KP Yes. The only caveat I would add to that is I have not seen the entire pandemic unemployment directive. And so is there a cutoff point for that for sole proprietors and one-members LLCs?

AH There is, and it's 39 weeks or December 30th of 2020, whichever comes first.

KP Okay. So yes. That's definitely in this climate of possibility.

MR Thank you. I think you were going to talk taxes before we jumped into some detail questions. You were going to mention some things about taxes?

KP Yeah. I just wanted to mention a little bit about taxes there. Say you're someone who's had a massage practice for a few years, and '19 was a great year. You had a great year in '19, and you think you're going to have not a great year in 2020. One thing that they have done that will be helpful when it comes to taxes next year is you're going to be able to carry your net operating loss if you actually have one for 2020, and we would be able to carry it back to, say, '19 when you had a good year and maybe recoup some of your taxes paid in for '19 on your 2020 tax return.

So that's another piece to this puzzle that they've added that's going to be helpful to small businesses because most of us had a pretty decent '19. Don't know how 2020's going to be. So that is something to remember when you're -- for a lot of you that, I believe, try to do your own taxes, 2020 might be a year, if you do end up with a loss, that you would want to go seek somebody's advice before you filed your own tax return.

MR Thank you.

AH Good to know. I'm going to be talking to you about that when the time comes since you do my taxes.

KP [Laughing].

MR [Laughing].

AH Thank you, Kim.

KP You're welcome. And that's the big part of the tax puzzle. The other part of this tax puzzle, I just can't believe it's going to stand as written at the moment, but tax-filing season has been extended to July 15th. If you don't have your taxes filed by then, you need to file an extension. If you owe money, whether you've already prepared and haven't paid or whether you get them prepared between now and July 15th and you pay it by July 15th, there will be no penalty in interest.

But there is a little caveat to that, I read in the regs. If you should have made estimated payments in 2019 and did not, they will be charging failure to file estimated payment penalties. The penalty for not paying the taxes by April 15th in interest will be gone, but they will still be assessing failure to pay estimated tax payments if you owe money when you go to file your taxes on July 15th. The other part of this that I wanted to mention to everybody is everyone's first-quarter estimate for 2020 is due April 15th, now due July 15th. But the June 15th, which is the second-quarter estimate, has not been brought into this yet. So technically, if they don't do anything to fix this, your second-quarter estimated tax payments, should you need to pay any, will be due before your first-quarter estimated tax payments. And so that is just some information I wanted to get out there and get on everybody's mind.

MR It's a crazy world we live in.

KP Yes. It's a crazy world.

AH Behold the efficiency and logic of the feds. Thank you.

MR [Laughing].

KP [Laughing] Exactly. Exactly. So --

MR Now, a few minutes ago, Allissa was thanking them for this [laughing].

KP Exactly [laughing]. And so that is just -- you know. And I would say this. A lot of you probably aren't going to be making first- and second-quarter estimates, and so there are -- if you are not someone that has owed taxes often and not paid them timely, there are ways and there are forms that can be filled out that you can ask for forgiveness for penalty and interest should you get to the third quarter and you realize, yeah, we probably should have made some first- and second-quarter estimates.

So there could be some penalty in interest, but I would say at the moment, making sure that the lights are on and there's groceries is more important.

MR Fair enough. Fair enough. There's one thing I wanted to jump back to if we could on the Paycheck Protection Program.

KP Yes.

MR This is strictly for a subset of people that may be listening, which is brand-new massage practices. I'm looking at the application form for the PPP, and there are some guidelines on completing the form. And one of the stipulations says -- let's see. "For new businesses, average monthly payroll" -- which in this case would be net income -- "may be calculated using the time period from January 1, 2020, to February 29th, 2020."

So they're saying as a new massage business or a new business in general, you can use the first two months of 2020 as your estimated payroll. And I think that's really important for some because I know we have some listeners who are maybe -- they started their massage practice in 2019, and they don't have a year of pay history. Maybe they started even late in 2019. They have no tax return even filed for it yet. And so I think that's an interesting component where they're allowing you to just use the first two months of 2020 as your estimated monthly payroll when applying for the PPP loan.

KP Yes. Yes. I mean, I saw that too. For new businesses, that's a very good one --

MR Yeah.

KP -- to be able to use. Totally.

MR That's a nice --

KP As long as you haven't exceeded 100,000 per employee.

MR Yeah. Yeah. That'd be pretty rare for, I think, most of us, though.

KP Yes.

MR So that's a good feature. It's a good feature.

KP It is. And so the Paycheck Protection Program, there is an application out now where people can actually start seeing some of the things they're going to ask for and what -- some of the things that you can use the loan for. I would say the following. This is a personal -- just a personal thing. There are lots of banks that will -- are capable of assisting with SBA loans, but not all banks are SBA loan approved. And I feel like this process will go faster and smoother if you deal with a bank that's already SBA approved.

MR Yeah. And if you google SBA-approved lenders, you'll get a list right there. And most banks in general are there. I've seen a handful of local banks close to my house that are SBA-approved lenders. And credit unions -- I think Allissa's mentioned credit unions as well.

AH Yeah, and what I did is I actually emailed both of the credit unions locally that I do business with. And I emailed them Sunday night or Monday morning, and I said, hi. I have accounts with you. I have for several years. Are you already an SBA provider, and if so, do you expect to be offering the PPP loans?

Now, one, which is a credit union I'm leaving anyway, hasn't gotten back to me at all because they suck. But the second one that I really like --

MR [Laughing].

AH -- they emailed me back Monday morning, and a very nice man named Tim said, yes, we're SBA lenders. I cannot answer the PPP thing yet. We are having a big meeting on it tomorrow with the SBA, and I will be able to get back to you with more later. And then Tuesday night, he emailed me and said, yes, it's looking good. I expect we'll be a provider. I think applications are going to be open Friday.

So if you already bank somewhere, wherever you do your banking, your credit union, whatever, if you have an established relationship with a local bank, reach out to them because they are probably an SBA provider. And I think it's better to go through an institution you already have a relationship with if you can. I've heard some people say that you have to do this through an institution you already have a relationship with, but I don’t actually believe that's the case. I think that was a hearsay situation.

MR Yeah. I don't think that's true.

AH So if your bank is not, ask them to refer you to one that is, or just go to the SBA lender site, like Michael's going to say. And I actually did get on two big national bank email lists about this as well, and I've been getting emails from them saying applications are open Friday, or likely -- they're all kind of hedging their bets just in case. But you can totally go to any of the major lenders and get on their email lists about this.

Okay. I'm done with that.

MR Yeah. The SBA does not directly --

KP And another thing --

MR Sorry. Go ahead, Kim.

KP No. There's two large banks that I -- I mean, I don't particularly want to say who they are -- that if you don't already bank with them and -- they are not going to assist.

MR Oh. Okay. So maybe there is some truth to that. Interesting. Well --

KP Yes. Yeah. If you're not already a business owner with them, they're not going to help with these.

MR Okay. Got it. And just to clarify, I think it's probably obvious by the way we've been talking about it, but the SBA does not directly service the PPP program. You have to go to an SBA-approved lender, which is a bank.

KP Yes.

MR So that's kind of -- whereas the disaster relief loans are administered directly through the SBA website. So there's a difference in who provides the servicing for these loans.

KP Yes.

MR Now, timelines. You mentioned timelines. I want to just kind of reiterate that. So according to the application I have in front of me for, small businesses and sole proprietorships, the starting point for application for PPP is April 3rd, which is the day this podcast will be airing. So Friday, today, April 3rd. And then for independent contractors, it is April 10th. That seems to be the timeline for when you can start to apply for PPP.

KP Oh, okay. For April 10th. Okay.

MR Yeah. April 3rd for sole proprietorships, which is the vast majority of our audience, and April 10th for independent contractors, which is also a good portion of our audience.

KP Okay. That's good to know. I didn't know the April 10th. I wouldn't have made much of a distinction between independent contractors and sole proprietors.

AH And one of the charts that I saw said April 3rd for sole proprietors, and it said April 10th for independent contractors and small -- and self-employed people. So I was like, yeah, I don't -- there's no difference between a sole proprietor and a self-employed person, is there? I don't know.

KP Right.

AH I mean, who knows? Who knows?

KP Yes. So I guess we'll find out what they mean.

MR Well, yeah. That's a gray area, I think. But I think self-employed in this case is like freelancers, I think is kind of what they're thinking, which is basically independent contractors.

KP Like the gig economy?

MR Possibly.

KP Like they work for multiple people?

MR Possibly. I think it's -- I -- yeah. Who knows? [Laughing] But I think the vast majority of our audience would fall under sole proprietorships.

KP Correct.

MR April 3rd timeline.

KP I agree with that.

MR Yeah. Also, one thing to note, I forget if we mentioned this or not, but the deadline for applying for PPP is June 30th, I believe. And I believe it is first come, first serve. So there is a little bit of urgency, in my opinion, to get your application in.

Would you agree with that, Kim?

KP I definitely would, unfortunately. I'm hoping that -- it's just hope; there's nothing to pin this on -- that if they say there's still a need, that they can just extend it some because yes, I do think it'll be a first-come, first-serve thing. And so if I were doing it, which I probably will be helping some people do it, I would do it after midnight. The ones that you go directly to the SBA website, I would do them at weird hours because I think that site could crash.

MR Yeah. It's very possible.

KP Everybody is there from 8 to 5 trying to fill out these loan apps. So that's just a little thing I would do. I would do it at an odd hour, early morning or late late night.

MR Yeah. All right. What else are you thinking? Is this a good rundown, or is there anything else you wanted to add for us, Kim?

KP No. I just wanted to give people some info on their taxes. Like I said, I think you guys have done a great job, a great job of researching all this. And I don't have much more to add. I just wanted to check in with you because I was getting so many calls from people. I was like, okay, let's just put this all in one podcast, maybe.

MR [Laughing].

KP And maybe it will help them. I think some people just need some reassuring [laughing], and they're traumatized. The mental health facilities will have a lot of work to do once this is over with too, I think, for people.

MR Yeah. Luckily, we have telehealth.

KP Yes. Yes. Definitely.

MR On that note, are you still accepting clients? I know you're probably pretty swamped right now, but I know you do a good job of scaling your business. So do -- are you still accepting clients? For example, if any of our listeners said, okay, I need some help, are you available to take on any more clients?

KP Yes. Julie and I will be happy to talk to anyone that needs to talk to us, whether they're a client or not. We may have to tell them we have to call them back because we're in the middle of something, but we'll be happy to help.

MR Okay. Great. And do you want to share your contact information and where the best place is to find you guys?

KP You can reach us -- phone number is 317-784-7402, or you can go on the -- look up our website, taxadvantagellc.com, and you can find all the other information you need to contact us on that website.

MR Thank you.

KP You're welcome.

MR All right. Well, with that, why don't we hit our other sponsor for the episode and then wrap up with some quick tips? So our sponsor, as we wrap up here, our friends over at Acuity who are our scheduling software of choice. They are great people, and Allissa's going to tell you more.

Sponsor message They sure are. They're our online assistant working 24/7 to fill your schedule, only now it's 24/7 to help us clear our schedules for the safety of us and our clients [laughing]. And I just want to note that it really was easy to manipulate my Acuity schedule and cancel the next month of clients, which I did last night. I canceled the end of April and into May. Actually, I think at this point, my schedule is entirely clear for the future, and I've just started telling people that I'll call them when I reopen.

So it made it really easy for me to click a couple buttons, and then I can run a report that shows me who I had to cancel according to these COVID cancellations. And yay. Thanks, Acuity, for making this less traumatic. And also know that there is, in fact, a free level of Acuity that you can use as you're getting set up. Our friends get a special 45-day free offer when you sign up today at massagebusinessblueprint.com/acuity. But if you've been thinking about changing scheduling systems, now is your chance. You can get that free intro, and then you can just use the free level of service until you are ready to start working again and upgrade and pay for the fancier features, which you may or may not need.

So know that Acuity is there for you right now even when things are hard, and they're going to be around for a while because Acuity is well diversified. They don't just serve massage therapists. They serve lots and lots of people who are still working. So I feel good about them being around even if the massage closures and wellness stuff is a little bit more long term. And they're owned by Squarespace. So yay. massagebusinessblueprint.com/acuity.

AH How was that COVID-19 informed ad, Michael? I freelanced a lot of it there. I freestyled.

MR That was very timely, very timely.

AH [Laughing].

MR A lot of people are using Acuity for virtual sessions. A lot of massage therapists are doing self-care and self-massage virtual sessions with people, and they're using Acuity to schedule it.

AH Yay.

KP And how do you spell Acuity for those of us that haven't used it?

AH A-C-U-I-T-Y. Thank you for pointing that out, Kim. I forget that people don't always know the stuff I know.

MR [Laughing] All right. Put --

KP Thank you. I want to check into it.

MR Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great scheduler.

All right. Quick tip time. So usually, we wrap up with a few quick tips. Right now, I think Allissa and I -- our brains are probably mush and fried by now, and Kim, I know your brain may be on the same page. But we're going to pick on you today. So what quick tips do you have for our listeners, Kim? It can be something tax related, something coronavirus-relief related. It can be something completely off the wall. What tips do you have for our audience to help their business or well-being or just anything at all in life?

KP Well, what I would say to those that aren't able to work at the moment is maybe there's a hobby you've always wanted to pick up that you could do from home. Pick that up. Don't spend all your time worrying about the future. Just organize. Plan as much as you can. Lists always help me to feel better. Just do what you can to -- do what you can do, and then stop worrying about the rest. The rest will eventually work itself out.

MR Good advice. Thanks, Kim.

KP You're welcome.

AH And I actually will give a quick tip. I want everyone to know that the Calm app has created a whole bunch of -- they've created a resource of free -- I might have even talked about this in the last podcast episode, actually. Anyhow, I want everyone to know --

MR Say it again.

AH I know. I want everyone to know again that the Calm app people, who do spoken meditation and sleep meditation stuff, have created a page that is free stuff for everyone. And it's at calm.com, and it's take-a-deep-breath, and -- but you don't have to remember that. You can just follow the link in the podcast notes.

Sorry. I got a little mellow when I was trying to say that because I'm looking at their ocean state right now on their website.

MR [Laughing].

KP [Laughing].

AH It's been a long day. It's been a long year.

MR Well, I'm going to play too since you had a quick tip, and I actually do have one. There's an app that I downloaded recently called Sky Guide, and it costs, I think, $3. So it does cost a little bit of money, but I think it's worth it. It's really cool. It's basically you point your phone at the night sky, and it tells you exactly what you're looking for. It shows you the constellations (indiscernible).

KP Oh!

MR And it's a really -- it has some really soothing music. It's like the Calm app made me think of that because when you open it up, it's very cosmos ethereal kind of background music. And it's not really music. It's more like just sound effects.

It just really makes you feel just chill, and you can see exactly what's in your night sky if you want to go outside and do some stargazing as the weather gets warmer. And it's a really beautiful app. So I really enjoy the app. It's called Sky Guide on the app store.

AH Rock on, Michael.

MR So there you go. All right.

Kim, Allissa, anything else, or are we good?

AH No, man.

Kim, thanks so much for sticking with us through this and for offering this up. This episode happened because Kim said, hey, do you need some help? Would you like us to do a podcast episode?

So thank you for that. Thanks for being generous to us and our people always.

MR Yeah, absolutely.

KP You're welcome. You guys have a good evening.

MR Yeah. You too. So we'll wrap it up there, then.

Thanks for sticking with us, especially through this episode. We had some -- my internet dropped a little bit and a little bit of messiness. And hey, life's messy right now. So we're going to go with it. That's kind of the way it is for a while [laughing].

KP [Laughing].

MR So thanks for being on this episode today, Kim.

And everyone, thanks for listening today. You can find us online, as always, at massagebusinessblueprint.com. Send us a note there, and we're happy to help. So hang in there, and we'll see you next time.

AH Bye.

KP Bye.