Nov 16, 2018
There are lots of moving parts in a massage business, and that becomes more apparent when you think about moving to another city. We think through the steps of closing and re-opening in a new area.Listen to "E191: How to Move Your Massage Practice to a New City" on Spreaker.
There are lots of moving parts in a massage business, and that becomes more apparent when you think about moving to another city. We think through the steps of closing and re-opening in a new area.
Sponsored by The Jojoba Company & The Center for Barefoot Massage
Sponsor message This episode is sponsored by The Jojoba Company. I firmly believe that massage therapists should only be using the highest quality products, because our clients deserve it, and our own bodies deserve it. I’ve been using jojoba for years. Here’s why: Jojoba is nonallergenic; I can use it on any client and every client without fear of an allergic reaction. Jojoba is noncomedogenic, which means it won’t clog pores; so if you have a client that’s prone to acne or breakouts, jojoba is a great choice for them. It also won’t go rancid; it doesn’t contain triglycerides like many products; so it won’t go bad. This makes jojoba a great carrier for essential oils, too. And finally, jojoba won’t stain your 100% cotton sheets; so your linens will look better for longer. And since jojoba won’t go rancid, they’ll always smell fresh and clean. For more information and to get some jojoba, go to massagebusinessblueprint.com/jojoba. That’s massagebusinessblueprint.com/J-O-J-O-B-A.
Michael Reynolds Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Massage Business Blueprint podcast, where we discuss the business side of massage therapy. I’m Michael Reynolds.
Allissa Haines And I am Allissa Haines.
MR We’re your hosts today. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, happy weekend whenever you’re listening. Our listeners listen all different times of day and night, so good day, evening, morning to all of you. Welcome, welcome. How are you, Allissa?
AH Wow, you’re super chipper.
MR I know. I just thought I’d have this kind of extended warm welcome to everybody out there listening today.
AH You’re like that — what’s that — The Truman Show where Jim Carrey’s like “good morning, good afternoon, and good evening”.
MR Oh, is that were I got it? I like that movie, so I probably did get it from there.
AH I had a — I have a story to tell, and it’s a follow-up of the most recent episode —
MR Hit me.
AH — that was an interview with Crystal Williams about networking. So right after we recorded — and we recorded like six days ago with her and popped that podcast episode out yesterday. We talked about networking and she talked about having a nametag, and I have been toying with joining a chamber of commerce or something like that in my area. And so I, like, right away, before I could forget, ordered a nametag. Just bit the bullet, spent 15 bucks at — no, I’m not affiliated with them in any way. And I want to get the name of it correct, so I just want to look at my thing —
MR Yeah, I actually just saw your post on Facebook. I’m going to go back and —
AH Yeah, so nametagwizard.com. They’re out of Florida. I ordered it right after we recorded, so it was last Thursday afternoon. It was 15 bucks. I got the — I don’t know if I got the metal or plastic one, but it’s got a magnet back, it has my massage practice logo and then my name, so nothing fancy. I ordered it last Thursday and it arrived in the mail yesterday, but I didn’t open my mail till this morning so — this morning I didn’t even see it. I opened — I saw this little, tiny padded envelope on the counter. I’m like oh, I got mail yesterday. Thanks, everyone, for telling me. And after I was crappy about that, I opened my mail, and it was my nametag. And it came with two Tootsie Rolls!
MR It looks great.
AH Yeah, and a little thingy that gives me 15% off my next order or whatever, although I did just get an email from them saying they’ve got a 35%-off deal happening right now. So yeah, shout out — this is not like a sponsorship or anything, but nametagwizard.com. It’s a good-looking nametag, and I’m really excited about it.
MR And at a great price, apparently.
AH Yeah, I mean — I think I ended up — I think I searched for coupon codes, so I got 10% off and then there was free shipping. I don’t know, something like that. It was 14.85, man. Yeah, I feel really good about it. I’m proud of myself for being proactive, and also I got two Tootsie Rolls. So yay.
AH So that’s my follow-up. Go ahead, sorry, Michael.
MR I have no such exciting story. You win exciting stories for today. Congratulations on your new nametag and your Tootsie Rolls.
AH Thank you, thank you very much. I’m very proud of myself. And also I have done some more — in the past week, I have done some more research on the chambers of commerce in my area. And my next step is to — I noticed that the one that operates in my town — I’m right on the line of counties and towns and so I never — some people — some stuff that includes my town all goes to the , and then right next to me it all goes to the south. So there’s nothing — there’s no one group I can join that will cover the clean radius around my office. So I’ve been looking into both of the ones near me. One of them seems to have some kind of political action committee that put out a statement about where their — I saw a thing saying the political action committee was going to put out a statement about their suggested candidates for the previous election, and I want to check — but I haven’t found the actual statement that says who they endorsed. So I’m going to check that out to make sure the candidates they endorse align with my personal values. And that will help me determine which chamber to join. That’s a topic for another time. We get really negative comments whenever I talk politics. But it is a thing that came up in our premium member discussion group what if your chamber doesn’t align with your personal politics, so.
But I’m very proud of myself because I have listed in my to do list today, to reach out to that chamber of commerce, ask for that statement about who they endorsed, and also to introduce myself and say that I’m considering the chamber and stuff. And I’ve got my nametag all ready. I’m really, really excited. It’s a huge step for me. Y’all know how much I hate this kind of stuff and how it’s so outside my comfort zone. So I did it. And that’s my follow-up from the Tuesday episode this past week. I don’t know. You can relisten in the future and I’ll find the episode number for you.
MR Nope, I’m sorry. 190. 190.
AH Okay. 190. It’s our episode with Crystal Williams. You should listen to that. Anyhow, let’s move along.
MR Let’s move along. We got some really good questions lately. And one of those questions is specific to moving your massage practice to a whole new faraway place, like not in the same town; a whole new state, a whole new city. Today we’re going to talk about how to move your massage practice to a new city.
AH Woo-hoo. So we got a question from a reader who I will call Nancy. And it says —
MR [laughs] Nancy.
AH — Nancy. Because I thought of that off the top of my head because I forgot to come up with a pseudonym.
MR All right, way to go Nancy. Great question. [laughs]
AH [laughs] Nancy. So the question — it’s a long question. It was pretty much, hey, can you do a little something-something on how to relocate your practice, how to do market research and figure out pricing and other things to consider. How much notice do you give your clients? It would be good to have advice on how to handle it if you have to give very short notice because it happens quickly. Nancy will be moving out of the state in the future and doesn’t know where to start, state licensure, all of these things.
There’s a lot to think about there. And it’s a little frustrating because I can’t give a perfect checklist that applies to everyone, so I’m going to do my best to cover the things and you got to make your own list. And one thing that I would note is that if you have done a good job of keeping your business records organized, you should be able to open your file, virtual or physical, and kind of flip through all of your documents and your insurance and your licensures and all of these things and create a list of things you need to consider and investigate as you move. So if you haven’t done a great job of organizing your business paperwork, now might be a good time. Going through your business history records is going to help you figure out what you need to do when you start up somewhere else.
So let’s talk about closing your practice and how to do so ethically and mindfully, honoring the loyalty of your clients, but without being so concerned about your clients that you kind of mess yourself up. Things can happen where you announce that you’re closing in six months, you’re not going to get any new clients in those six months. And maybe that’s okay. Maybe you don’t want them. But your regular clients who taper off — when they go to reschedule will go ah, she’s moving out of town anyway; I should just find another therapist. Or ah, I can’t remember when she said she was moving; I’m not going to bother trying to schedule. So you don’t want to give people so much notice that you — I’m looking for really good terminology, but I can’t find it — that you screw yourself out of income the last few months of your job. So keep that in mind. We want to have a balance here that is ethical to you and your clients.
The first thing that usually comes up is gift certificates. If you know you’re going to be moving in two years and your state has a mandatory seven-year expiration on gift certificates, you’re kind of begging for trouble if you keep selling them. So maybe you should stop selling them. The timing on that depends on the laws in your state that regulate such things. If you’re going to move in 12 months, you don’t want to sell any packages that are good for 18 months. If you’re moving in 6 months, again, you don’t want to sell packages that are good for 12 months. You’re begging for problems. You don’t want to be dealing with stuff more than you have to. So maybe stop selling them depending on the timing of the laws in your state regarding expiration. And keep in mind, too, that some states when a business closes, that’s it. Someone who’s holding a gift certificate that is in date may not have any recourse. I have more than once had held on to a gift certificate for a restaurant and the restaurant closed and there’s no recourse. There’s no way to get my money back. That’s how it is in my state. In other states, when a business closes, certain amount of money needs to be turned over to the state — I don’t know if it’s the attorney general or the secretary of the treasury — I don’t know, so that anyone who’s holding a gift certificate, can actually petition the state, submit an application to the state to receive reimbursement of those funds if the business is closed. There’s lots of different ways that different states handle it.
But I do want to point out that closing a business might be different from moving a business. So if you look at your state’s stuff and they say if business closes, there’s no recourse for gift certificate holders; the business just keeps that money, one, that’s a little unethical, so you have to battle your own demons on that one. But if you’re just moving your business and you’re not closing it, that could be an issue so that might not apply to you. So if you’re counting on moving and not having to reimburse or somehow be responsible for all those outstanding gift certificates, you could be wrong and that could end up being an issue.
So I — my two suggestions here are one, connect with a colleague who is going to remain local to your original location and will accept them. And then if you get a phone call or somebody reaches out to you and says hey, I’ve got this gift certificate, but it seems like you moved, what do I do with it? You can say hey — or hopefully you won’t even have to deal with a phone call because this information will be on your website — you can say hey, I made a deal with two colleagues around you and they will be happy to accept the gift certificate. So you can give them a call and schedule, let them know you are holding a gift certificate from me, and then I will pay them out from my resources. So that’s another bit — this is the second part. You need to have the funds to refund people. So if you have been spending money that comes in to you — if you have been spending your gift certificate income instead of stocking it away for situations like this or to reimburse yourself as the gift certificates are redeemed, that’s a problem and you’re going to want to save up some funds to be able to refund people or pay out a local colleague who is accepting them. And you might be able to work out a deal with a colleague. If this is someone who’s looking for new clients and they are happy to take referrals as you close down and happy to accept your gift certificates after you move away, you might be able to work out a deal where you keep a little bit of the percentage. And, again, you have to look at the referral laws in your state. But if you’re moving out of town and you’ve — a colleague’s going to take your one-hour gift certificate that someone paid, whatever, 80 bucks for, maybe you can just pay that college out 70. Or maybe you can pay them the full amount minus whatever credit card fees were involved so they’re not losing any money more than if the client just came to them directly. So that’s a deal you have to work out. But you do need to have the funds, maybe, according to your state laws, to refund people if they call you and say hey, I just bought this gift certificate from you six months ago and then you moved; what the heck am I supposed to do with it now? You want to, I think, be able to behave in an ethical manner and say here are your options: you can redeem this with a colleague or I can send you a refund. I apologize for that happening. So there’s that. That tends to be the big thing with gift certificates and packages.
Michael, do you have thoughts on that?
MR On that specifically, no. I have some other thoughts, but on that, you are the expert. So I agree.
AH All right, so how soon do you tell people that you are shutting down and moving? I say you want to think about your practice and how far out you book people. So if you normally book people two months of appointments out, then they’re going to wonder if they come in and you don’t keep booking them that far out; you’re going to have to tell them. So if you only book people one month out, then maybe one month is the right amount of time. You have to think about it. For me, I think I would shoot for 8-12 weeks and get all my regulars booked out for the remainder of my tenure at that location and not worry too much about the rest. So you have to think about what’s right for you.
And in the situation where you don’t have a lot of notice, when things happen really quickly, I think you need to tell people as soon as you know, but only as soon as you have a plan in place. So if you find out on a Monday that you’re going to be leaving town in four weeks, if you can get a plan together in 7 days, if you can talk to some colleagues, if you can do whatever you got to do to say okay, I am going to let my clients know I am leaving town and that they can see you for care, and I’m going to refer to you and you’re going to redeem my gift certificates — as soon as you can possibly — I don’t like to tell people things, I don’t want to give news if I don’t have a plan for how they should handle that news and what they’re going to do with that. So I think the moment you know plus the moment you have a plan together and make that as soon as possible. If it ends up being two to three weeks, then it ends up being two to three weeks. Ideally — sometimes things happen and we cannot plan when a loved one becomes very ill and we have to book out of town and put our practice on hold or know that we’re going to shut it down because we’re going to be gone for six months. Things happen. I like a month at least, but you got to do what you got to do.
Any thoughts on that part, Michael?
MR Not on that part specifically. I have a whole grenade to throw in the conversation, so I’m going to wait till near the end to do that. So I’m going to hold off of that. But yes, you’re good.
AH Exciting. And other considerations: How are you going to handle this transition? How do you — and again, context matters here. How do you typically communicate with your clients? If none of your clients, none of your regulars deal with email, then you’re going to want to, if you have the time, do it in person as they come for their regular appointments and you book them out as far as your business will go and then refer them out. If the situation is too urgent for that, you’re going to have to make a bunch of phone calls, and that’s okay. Write your script down and practice it a few times and then start making calls. Start with the people who have been most gracious and chill with you so you can practice it on them. And let’s — are you going to have a holding page on your website? As soon as you know, you want your homepage of your website to say here’s the news, here’s what I think you should do with it, here’s who I think you should see locally, here’s what I’m going to do with outstanding packages and gift certificates. As soon as you have that plan and you’ve made the announcement, my guess is you’re going to stop taking new patients as soon as you make that announcement so that works. That’s okay.
Michael, who’s our halftime sponsor?
MR Halftime sponsor today is our friends at the Center for Barefoot Massage.
AH Yay, thank you Center for Barefoot Massage.
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AH All right you want me to go through more logistics of moving the business? Or you want to drop grenades now?
MR Why don’t you finish —
MR — what the episode was meant to be by doing that. And then I’ll drop the grenade at the end.
AH Oh, man. This is going to be a long one.
MR It’s not a huge — it’s just more of a slightly different direction of the topic. So just go ahead and do your thing, and then I’ll jump in at the end.
AH Okay, so when you — so we kind of covered the wrapping up your old site. But meanwhile, and even beforehand if you know you’re going to be moving, there’s lots of logistics to think through. And, again, if you go through a lot of your business paperwork, it’s going to give you a good idea of your to do list.
Licensing, state and local. And this is such a hassle in the US because we’re licensed state by state, and some states are not licensed at all. So as soon as possible, you’re going to want to start researching stuff online. Look at what — online, and then calling state and local offices — what are the processes to get a practitioner license in the state and the town that you want to practice in? Do your research. Do your best to connect with some other massage therapists in the area. Ask around. Ask online. Check out your massage discussion group on Facebook. Start asking and talking to people. Make actual phone calls to talk to people and find out what it’s like to get licensed. And do all the things. You might have to take a test if you never had to take a test. I got grandfathered in to my Massachusetts licensure, and I would probably have to take a test if I moved somewhere else. I might have to take some more CE. I might have to take some more primary massage education if the education requirements in that state are more than what was going down when I went to massage school. So you really need to look and plan ahead because it could be that you’ve got to take a class or two or take an exam.
Once you get the practitioner ball rolling, the practitioner license stuff happening, you’ve got to think about facility regulations. Do you want to work for somebody else, do you want to immediately open up your own practice? What are your cash reserves to do that? How much money do you need to save between now and when you’re moving so that one, you can take a month or two off to get all your ducks in a row at the new location — and not just your business ducks, but if you’re going to be moving your home and your family, that’s going to be a thing. That’s a whole project. So what do you need in the bank to not work for a couple months and then to start up?
Do you need — the original question from Nancy talked about market research. We don’t have a ton of real strategic market research stuff except to google the crap out of this. There is so much information available online now that a lot of what you need you can find online and then you can talk to people in the area you plan to move to and get a lot more there. Just looking at other businesses is going to give you a really good idea of what’s going on. And if you’re going to stay — now, what kind of practice are you going to have? Are you going to stay in the same niche you’re in now, or are you going to do a total 180? Because if you stay the same, one, that’s going to help guide your research. So if right now you work a lot on people with migraine and/or TMJ issues, look around that area. Do you have any pain clinics? Are there lots of migraine specialists around there? Every medical practice and medical center has a website now. Do some — maybe look at some online forums and Facebook discussion groups for migraine sufferers. Maybe look at some of that stuff. Find out if there’s, again, a pain center — that’s just an example — in the area that you’re around. If you’re going to move to a city that is known for lots of corporate home offices and things like that and you work on desk jockeys, great. So if you’re going to move to an area where there is a really vibrant, outdoorsy, athlete kind of community and you work on that kind of person, great. But you got to do — see what’s going on in the area you’re moving to. If you’re moving to a tourist area, what are the high seasons? What’s in demand there? What are other businesses tending to do? And maybe you want to do something completely different, I don’t know. But much of this market research is available online.
So if you do plan to have the same kind of practice, if you’re not going to — if you don’t need to change your niche, if you’re not going to change your business name, most of what you do is going to be just like when you originally started your practice years ago or whenever. But it can all move — you’ve done the foundational work, so you can transfer all of that same information to your new location. You can use the same website just changing the contact information and the address and a few keywords to embrace your new area. You can change your business operating address on most of your business listings online including Yelp. If you have a really vibrant testimonials and reviews on Yelp, and your Facebook page, and your Google Business listing, you can change the address on those and that will all transfer that history and credibility, that archive of clients, testimonials, and such are going to transfer right over to the new address.
If you’re going to dramatically change your niche, then maybe you want to change your business name and do all of that work foundationally from the beginning again. Outside of this, it’s really tough for me to help make a specific checklist because state and local rules are so different everywhere. I can’t tell you if you’re going to need to go to your city clerk and get — and if you’re going to need to register your business name in a certain way or not because it’s so different locally. But if you’ve got time and you’re planning this move, you have the time to do the legwork and talk to people in those areas. So that’s kind of all I got, Michael.
AH What do you got?
MR So all excellent advice, which I agree with 100%. My question is this: Why would you not consider trying to sell your massage practice in certain situations? And I have lots of thoughts, but I’m curious what you think.
AH Yeah, you know —
MR That might be a dumb question.
AH It’s not a dumb question because — and I’m pausing because I’m thinking in my head of a handful of people I know who have bought active practices and it’s gone well for them. But I think you would be hard-pressed to find a buyer. It’s just not a thing that people do anymore. In my experience, that’s what I think.
MR Here’s my theory — oh, sorry. I’m sorry, go ahead.
AH I think that — I think you might be overestimating the number of practitioners who have the wherewithal, the knowledge, the means, the understanding of the value of that. So someone who’s been in the business for a while understands that selling a practice has a certain value. But to get someone — if someone’s already started to build up their own clientele, they’re probably not going to buy another business because they think they’re doing just fine building up on their own. And a newer therapist, unless they are someone with a serious history in business, isn’t going to understand the value of that. I just — it’s so rare. I’ve seen businesses go up for sale around me and nobody buys them. Because even though they’re fairly priced, massage is such an individual thing that I think even when you buy a practice, unless your style is super, super similar and your personality and your vibe and your bedside manner is super, super similar to the person you’re buying the business from, especially when we’re talking about one-person massage businesses versus larger spas, it’s just not a thing. It’s just not — people are going to drop off no matter what because you’re not their person. And to spend $25,000 buying a practice — I don’t know. I just don’t see it happening.
MR Well, I agree for the most part, but stay with me on this thought process —
AH I am open.
MR — yeah. So here’s what I’m thinking. So first of all, most people, I think, when they move locations, their default is to just shut the practice down and start fresh. If you’re working from that as your baseline, to me, anything is better than nothing. And so, you are correct. I don’t see it happening that you’ll get $25,000 or $100,000 for your practice or whatever. But what if you get 5,000? What if you get 10,000?
Here’s a couple of different types of buyers that I could see working. One would be a strategic acquisition buyer. The other would be a financial, kind of, lifestyle buyer or financial strategic. And what I mean by that is let’s say you’ve got a thriving practice, or even just a regular practice that’s making decent money. It’s not — you’re not Scrooge McDuck-ing it, but it’s going pretty well; you’ve got a decent clientele. There are certain things you can do in that practice that would add value to the buyer and make it potentially more attractive. And I’m thinking of, perhaps, let’s say you’re an independent massage practitioner and within a mile of you, there is a larger spa. So let’s say that your clientele, in theory, would be receptive to spa services and the type of massage they would offer at a spa. Let’s just say that’s true. So let’s say you go to that spa and you say hey, I’m thinking of shutting down my practice and I could refer to some colleagues or whatever. But I’d love my clients to be taken care of. I am willing to turn over my client list to you. I am also willing to meet individually and talk to as many clients as possible to tell them that I have vetted a new location, I have interviewed therapists, I have matched them up with somebody I think would be a good recommendation for them, and I have done the legwork for them to save them the trouble of finding a new massage therapist; I’ve done it for them, so so speak, and relieved them of that stress. Would you give me maybe 25% of my annual revenue just to take on my clients and to take on, maybe, my assets as well, equipment or whatever. That’s actually a pretty good deal for the spa because they’re getting cashflow of potentially 4x what you’re already making in your business for a fraction of that, your clients are taken care of, you’re getting more than zero dollars — which is what you were planning on anyway — and everybody kind of wins and you’ve got some expenses — some funding to help you start up your new location. That’s only one scenario. This gets even more valuable if you have memberships, if you have any kind of recurring clientele that schedule on a regular basis. Any kind of recurring revenue really ups the value of that as well.
To me, if you’re planning on getting zero dollars by shutting down your practice, anything more than zero is better than that. And I’m wondering if that is a potential route that some practitioners might be able to go.
AH It could be. I think that as a whole, the massage profession’s a little ways away from that being norm. And I think people get really freaked out about the idea of selling a client list. How does that work? How does that violate confidentiality? Is that in alignment with the things we need to consider. If we consider ourselves healthcare providers, is that a thing we can do? Are there state regulations about that? It’s super cagey. I also think that as a whole — and I happen to know Nancy and know that she’s super organized and she probably has a business that is structured well and could be put up for sale in that way. I think there’s not much of a market for it is what I think. But I’m being super negative.
MR [laughs] Well, I think you’re right that there not much of a market for it. But I am still — I still stand behind the idea that it’s worth trying, and if it gets you $10,000 as opposed to zero dollars when you move, I think that’s potentially worth it.
AH Yeah. Do you think it’s worth it — if someone’s going to just plant their same business at another location with the same niche and all of that stuff, do you think it’s worth it if it means they have to change all their website and branding? Or no?
MR Oh yeah. I think it’s totally — I mean, I think it depends on the dollar amount. I think if you’re getting 500 bucks, then no. That’s not much. But if you were getting $10,000, I think yeah — that’s enough funding to get a new website, get new business cards and that stuff. I mean, that stuff — I think that’s well worth it.
And I think — and by the way, I’m coming to this from the experience of — I’ve experienced selling a business lately, and so I’m coming to this learning a ton about the ins and outs of how this works. Not about massage practice. I don’t have any experience selling a massage practice, so I think you are correct. I think there is a reason that doesn’t happen very often. It’s a purely service-based business, it’s very local, it’s very personal. There’s a lot of things working against the idea of selling a massage practice. But when you think about it, medial practices merge and acquire all the time. Chiropractic, all sorts of other wellness and medical practices merge and get acquired all the time. And that’s not so different. I think what’s holding massage therapists back from also participating in that buy/sell/merger/acquisition potential opportunity is just knowledge. Knowledge both on the buyer and the seller’s part. I think if — by the way I want to keep this from turning into a whole new topic because it could and maybe it will someday. But I think that there is room for, in the massage therapy community, for acquisitions to actually become more prevalent under the right circumstances. I would fight for Nancy to maybe think about that and say before you just shut things down, maybe think about how you could potential get a little bit of money out of your practice.
AH Absolutely. And, people, if you have experience buying or selling a massage practice, we want to hear from you. Podcast@massagebusinessblueprint.com is our email address because I am 100% going to make Michael do an episode on this.
MR [laughs] Cool.
AH So we want to hear from you if this is a thing you considered and trashed, you considered and tried, if it succeeded, if it failed, we want to know. firstname.lastname@example.org. All right, I’m done.
MR Right on. That was awesome. Yeah, so I think Nancy has some great advice to help with this transition. We wish her the best, obviously .
AH There’s going to be lots of follow-up to this. More questions and more experience on moving. We’d love to hear it.
MR Right on. Cool. All right, well, thank you, everybody, for listening today. We appreciate you being with us. Reminder our website is massagebusinessblueprint.com. Check us out there for all the other things we offer including a premium member community which is growing every day and it’s amazing. We have so much stuff there for you guys including high quality professional stock photography, the best massage therapy Facebook group on Facebook, a lot of premium resources, office hours for peer-to-peer mentoring and consulting, ton of cool stuff. So check us out there. And as Allissa mentioned, the email address to reach us is email@example.com. Thanks again for joining us. Have a great day, and we’ll see you next time.